Sneek you will just love this

Post by **Fenz** » 18 Jul 2006, 10:45

Zilver wrote:Take Arnodoot for example.

The days he played in AB. He was impossible to kill. That dude would defend a flag on his own against 3 to 4 horde with ease untill alliance came to assist him. I have never seen him lose a 1 on 1 let alone lose against a group with equal numbers on his side. Now you could just say that this is because he's a skilled player, but we all know better.

Did he kill any of them? I don't care how uber a pally is, if 4 people can't kill him they suck. I hear more whines about WL's then pallies unfortunatly

Zilver · Post by **Zilver** » 18 Jul 2006, 10:52

Fenz wrote:
Zilver wrote:Take Arnodoot for example.

The days he played in AB. He was impossible to kill. That dude would defend a flag on his own against 3 to 4 horde with ease untill alliance came to assist him. I have never seen him lose a 1 on 1 let alone lose against a group with equal numbers on his side. Now you could just say that this is because he's a skilled player, but we all know better.
Did he kill any of them? I don't care how uber a pally is, if 4 people can't kill him they suck. I hear more whines about WL's then pallies unfortunatly

Did he need to? No since he was just stalling for reinforcements to arrive. Which in result gave him what they wanted. Dead horde and the flag still in alliance controll.

WL's are pretty unique in 1 on 1 situation. If specced right don't think there's any class that can take them. But i'm talking about group/raid situation in pvp and pve, not about 1 on 1 or duels.

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 18 Jul 2006, 11:02

hunter vs paladin in open field = hunter wins. eventually

hunter vs paladin in cramped space, like a base = might as well freezetrap him and run, cause there's no way in hell you're gonna beat him :\

Skyly · Post by **Skyly** » 18 Jul 2006, 11:05

a priest in plate

Post by **Fenz** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:23

WL's are pretty unique in 1 on 1 situation. If specced right don't think there's any class that can take them. But i'm talking about group/raid situation in pvp and pve, not about 1 on 1 or duels.

In groups a WL can do more things then a for instance a pally and they (if specced for it) can live forever too or just nuke insane hard. Anyway a pallyisn't a good enough reason to change sides

As that guy wrote, for most of the pve encounters the room for errors is a bit smaller on the Horde side but that only means we have to play more focussed.

Skyly · Post by **Skyly** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:26

I wouldnt never change sides either for that matter

underdogs rule

Zilver · Post by **Zilver** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:26

Fenz wrote:
WL's are pretty unique in 1 on 1 situation. If specced right don't think there's any class that can take them. But i'm talking about group/raid situation in pvp and pve, not about 1 on 1 or duels.
In groups a WL can do more things then a for instance a pally and they (if specced for it) can live forever too or just nuke insane hard. Anyway a pallyisn't a good enough reason to change sides As that guy wrote, for most of the pve encounters the room for errors is a bit smaller on the Horde side but that only means we have to play more focussed.

I think you're being a bit short-sighted on this fenz. If i was only a bit more focus that was needed i hardly doubt there would be so much fuss about this on the forums.

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:28

it's just stupid how much easier it is for alliance to beat the exact same encounter.
I bet we'd be on par with lootftw for example on boss progress easy if we had all the toys they get

(free 10% to all stats, free extra ap, free better agro reduction, free extra mana regen and all at the same time, no need to choose, and for the whole raid). Major design flaw, and blizzard dodging the issue isnt helping..

Post by **sneek** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:33

I'm still neutral with the Defilers but yes I've played some AB games with our guild. And some of those were against Marshall teams featuring, at least once, Arnodoot.

A well played support pally requires a well played support shammie to counter, imo.
We can preemptively counter the HoJ, remove the Repentance and all round have a better chance at clearing rogue poisons from the group we're in not to mention an interesting way of slowing down an assist train.

Was a fun match which we won by the skin of our teeth.

As for the PvE side. Fear not - Tigole's a designer in Blizzard that checks back on several "old skool" raiding fora in the States that now focus on WoW.
And all those fora are lit up like an Easter fire with all respected core raiders of the leading guilds (both Horde and Alliance) in the world practically being unanimous in the Horde:Alliance issue we're touching here in this thread.

Checking out the Raids & Dungeons / General / Shaman fora of WoW both in the US and EU you'll see plenty of renowned raiders and vid makers making their pleads.

Post by **Fenz** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:33

Zilver wrote:
Fenz wrote:
WL's are pretty unique in 1 on 1 situation. If specced right don't think there's any class that can take them. But i'm talking about group/raid situation in pvp and pve, not about 1 on 1 or duels.
In groups a WL can do more things then a for instance a pally and they (if specced for it) can live forever too or just nuke insane hard. Anyway a pallyisn't a good enough reason to change sides As that guy wrote, for most of the pve encounters the room for errors is a bit smaller on the Horde side but that only means we have to play more focussed.
I think you're being a bit short-sighted on this fenz. If i was only a bit more focus that was needed i hardly doubt there would be so much fuss about this on the forums.

I would make a fuss if the top horde guilds would fall behind the alliance by a big margin but they are not. Not being alliance isn't an excuse, it's a plus! Play your strengths, work around your weaknesses and stop looking at what the others have imo. So far Blizz did an ok job balancing the 2 sides imo, wich isn't to say Shamans shouldn't recieve some extra love at some point.

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 18 Jul 2006, 12:51

are you insane? what are our strenghts exactly as horde in pve compared to alliance ? There are none

bliz has it easy balancing the factions cause, duh, the factions have the exact same classes, so they only had racials to fuck up (fearward anyone?). And ONE class that's different. Which they also royally fucked up. So how the hell did they do a good job exactly?

saying 'horde is for pvp' is bs .. gear makes pvp trivial, alliance can get gear easier. and big deal, pvp sucks ass in this game anyway .. that world pvp plan they have is downright pathetic .. ooooh lets pvp to get a pve buff to kill greencon mobs a little easier yay! give me a relic that increases dps by 10% realmwide that the other side can conquer etc ... there's something worth fighting for, and maybe then our 'imba' pvp racials will give us the advantage to get 10% bonus that way (ofc I wont but w/e)

Maugetar · Post by **Maugetar** » 18 Jul 2006, 13:12

not that it matters... but i dont know how many times ive killed arnodoot in AB :p

Zilver · Post by **Zilver** » 18 Jul 2006, 13:21

Fenz wrote:
Zilver wrote:
Fenz wrote:
WL's are pretty unique in 1 on 1 situation. If specced right don't think there's any class that can take them. But i'm talking about group/raid situation in pvp and pve, not about 1 on 1 or duels.
In groups a WL can do more things then a for instance a pally and they (if specced for it) can live forever too or just nuke insane hard. Anyway a pallyisn't a good enough reason to change sides As that guy wrote, for most of the pve encounters the room for errors is a bit smaller on the Horde side but that only means we have to play more focussed.
I think you're being a bit short-sighted on this fenz. If i was only a bit more focus that was needed i hardly doubt there would be so much fuss about this on the forums.
I would make a fuss if the top horde guilds would fall behind the alliance by a big margin but they are not. Not being alliance isn't an excuse, it's a plus! Play your strengths, work around your weaknesses and stop looking at what the others have imo. So far Blizz did an ok job balancing the 2 sides imo, wich isn't to say Shamans shouldn't recieve some extra love at some point.

Did you read the link sneek gave on page 1? The poster in that thread explaines exactly the reason why top end horde guilds will always stay on par with top end alliance guilds. Now the problem here is that the horde doesnt consist of only top end raiding guilds. Read the post and you'll understand.

Post by **Fenz** » 18 Jul 2006, 13:58

Now the problem here is that the horde doesnt consist of only top end raiding guilds. Read the post and you'll understand.

OMG let me read it again and see if I understand it now!1!1!

My point is that Horde can beat the same encounters even tho it might take them a bit more time to master some encounters.

what are our strenghts exactly as horde in pve compared to alliance ?

Strengths as in the skills our guildies bring to the table....

So how the hell did they do a good job exactly?

You are still playing aren't you? I should have brought cheese to this thread

Zilver · Post by **Zilver** » 18 Jul 2006, 14:07

So how the hell did they do a good job exactly?

You are still playing aren't you? I should have brought cheese to this thread

[/quote]

Oh come on fenz, you know better than this. Off course people still play this game eventhough its faulty. Hell even people keep playing while the server is so damn laggy you cann do shit. Why do they still play? Well maybe after a full education into psychologie i might know. Still doesnt make your comment a valid one

Fact is, there's unbalance in this game between the 2 factions. Something thats been proven by both alliance and horde. This unbalance favors the alliance in pve. Again proven by both alliance and horde. And for those who like to think of the further concequeses this also influenses the difference between horde and alliance in pvp. You cannt just say, taurens have warstomp, thats a pvp skill, so horde have it better, thats bullshit. There's more factors that come into play here than just the obvious ones.