Also glyph of hl now can't crit any longer.
mmo champ got some badge loot stats up
http://www.mmo-champion.com/
PALADINS
Healing gear stats in ulduar 25 so far seem to been slashed from crit stats the only thing with crit is not even better then naxx.Ulduar Gear focusing on mp5 for more intended mana regen nerfs most likely combined with divine plea nerf already live i guess were back to fol spamming once more
Also glyph of hl now can't crit any longer.
mmo champ got some badge loot stats up
http://www.mmo-champion.com/
Also glyph of hl now can't crit any longer.
mmo champ got some badge loot stats up
http://www.mmo-champion.com/
Ofcourse you did read about Bliz wanting to make mana management an issue right? Part of that plan might be to ease up on crit healing gear.Blahran wrote:did you saw every item that dropped in ulduar?
dont think so, every thing will be fine just w8 till all loot is known there will be spellpower crit loot
I ain't leaving without your soul and I am sober this time.
I'm a bit curious about the impact the DP nerf had on intellect as a stat.
Before DP was nerfed int was the most important stat for paladins since it effectively increased all stats and made HL spam quite possible (int gives mana, crit, spellpower and mp5 via DP). But since the nerf to DP I wonder if you can use DP in raids anymore, a 50% healing penalty is pretty rough, and they want holy paladins to use it strategically, not as soon as the CD is up, so future nerfs will come if we continue to use it.
At the moment, I prefer crit and spellpower before any other stat - throwing in some mp5 here and there.
While this keeps my mana pool a bit behind everyone else who's been stacking int, I don't rely on DP to keep me going, so I can cast continously without any penalty, throwing in a DP if the situation allows it.
50% penalty on DP is a 12.5% penalty on your total healing output if you use it once it's off CD (which would amount to shaving off 1-1.5K from every HL you cast - not to mention that the loss in healing output may actually kill the tank).
Any comments from the raiding holydins in the guild?
Before DP was nerfed int was the most important stat for paladins since it effectively increased all stats and made HL spam quite possible (int gives mana, crit, spellpower and mp5 via DP). But since the nerf to DP I wonder if you can use DP in raids anymore, a 50% healing penalty is pretty rough, and they want holy paladins to use it strategically, not as soon as the CD is up, so future nerfs will come if we continue to use it.
At the moment, I prefer crit and spellpower before any other stat - throwing in some mp5 here and there.
While this keeps my mana pool a bit behind everyone else who's been stacking int, I don't rely on DP to keep me going, so I can cast continously without any penalty, throwing in a DP if the situation allows it.
50% penalty on DP is a 12.5% penalty on your total healing output if you use it once it's off CD (which would amount to shaving off 1-1.5K from every HL you cast - not to mention that the loss in healing output may actually kill the tank).
Any comments from the raiding holydins in the guild?
I stack(ed) crit/int. sp was always a bit wasted imo before the dp nerf when you can spam hl near forever and it overheals for a ton anyway no reactive healing was needed and that was safer too anyway to prevent tank deaths so didnt see a reason not to spam.
mp5/high sp with fol spamming was always even in bc my backup after the illumination mana regen nerfs hit there too though.
You can use dp once per fight now with a minor penalty to healing if you combine it with aw and a spellpower trinket for instance;after that you can only use it in some strategic times/some fights like when the tank is running from anub when swarm is casting to the other side.Not all fights have these strategic options though so mana regen is slashed hard already with dp nerf.
Or if there is just enough (over)healing already but that is always tricky to rely on other healers when you want to use dp. On most fights i try to hit the boss with sow up now to make up for the nerf a bit; with haste stacking if you wait just around 1 sec with a fast weapon after a hl cast you get a melee swing and up to around 1k mana back if sow procs depending on gear. Used it even on patchwerk where dp wasnt really an option anymore. On sapp i do one melee swing too with sow after most hl cast and just spam hl myself through double icestorms when needed so it will hit the mt too with beacon.
They seem set on limiting crit not going much higher then with nax25 gear for now though so most likely its back to a mp5/sp set. But then you just gonna need more dins/other healers then before for the same health/sec on a target if they nerf mana regain even further
mp5/high sp with fol spamming was always even in bc my backup after the illumination mana regen nerfs hit there too though.
You can use dp once per fight now with a minor penalty to healing if you combine it with aw and a spellpower trinket for instance;after that you can only use it in some strategic times/some fights like when the tank is running from anub when swarm is casting to the other side.Not all fights have these strategic options though so mana regen is slashed hard already with dp nerf.
Or if there is just enough (over)healing already but that is always tricky to rely on other healers when you want to use dp. On most fights i try to hit the boss with sow up now to make up for the nerf a bit; with haste stacking if you wait just around 1 sec with a fast weapon after a hl cast you get a melee swing and up to around 1k mana back if sow procs depending on gear. Used it even on patchwerk where dp wasnt really an option anymore. On sapp i do one melee swing too with sow after most hl cast and just spam hl myself through double icestorms when needed so it will hit the mt too with beacon.
They seem set on limiting crit not going much higher then with nax25 gear for now though so most likely its back to a mp5/sp set. But then you just gonna need more dins/other healers then before for the same health/sec on a target if they nerf mana regain even further
I don't see that as a problem, I haven't got that good gear yet and with talents and glyphs I have 39% unbuffed crit with FoL and 40% with HL & HS - with raidbuffs I'll get closer to 50% and going higher than that would reduce the bonus from Sacred Shield and therefore I think it's better to stack raw spellpower from now on.Versus wrote:They seem set on limiting crit not going much higher then with nax25 gear for now though so most likely its back to a mp5/sp set. But then you just gonna need more dins/other healers then before for the same health/sec on a target if they nerf mana regain even further
Based on talents, meta and other effects that trigger on spellcast. Since FoL is more mana-effective than HL, and it will proc spellcast effects more often (the insightful meta has no confirmed internal CD for example) I'd say that FoL spamming with an occasional HS/HL or even some for of rotation with 3-4 FoL 1 HS 1 HL would be the way to go.
Edit:
Looking at the paladin gear from Naxx it seems I'll go down a lot in crit when I get upgrade though, I'm currently dressed in a lot of caster DPS gear (leather, mail and even some cloth) which is loaded with crit.
I wouldn't sacrifice crit for anything.
Crit is, and will probably always be, the number 1 stat of Paladins.
I stack stats in order of:
1. Crit 2. Spellpower 3. Haste 98712398734. Intellect
I just don't get Paladins who throw 16 Intellect sockets into all slots combined with 19 Spellpower ones. Grats, you get a 26k raidbuffed manapool but what good use is that when you have 10-15% less crit then I do? In harder upcoming encounters I doubt that Paladins will get much chances using Divine Plea unless you can coordinate something with some other healer taking over your assignment for a while.
So I will just stick to using my Potent Monarch Topazes and don't give two flying ***** about Intellect as I never go oom and FoL crit spam when you get 25-30 consecutive crits to be followed by a noncrit and then another 25-30 crits I find a whole lot more mana efficient and it completely annihilates healing.
Crit is, and will probably always be, the number 1 stat of Paladins.
I stack stats in order of:
1. Crit 2. Spellpower 3. Haste 98712398734. Intellect
I just don't get Paladins who throw 16 Intellect sockets into all slots combined with 19 Spellpower ones. Grats, you get a 26k raidbuffed manapool but what good use is that when you have 10-15% less crit then I do? In harder upcoming encounters I doubt that Paladins will get much chances using Divine Plea unless you can coordinate something with some other healer taking over your assignment for a while.
So I will just stick to using my Potent Monarch Topazes and don't give two flying ***** about Intellect as I never go oom and FoL crit spam when you get 25-30 consecutive crits to be followed by a noncrit and then another 25-30 crits I find a whole lot more mana efficient and it completely annihilates healing.
With DP only giving a 20% penalty to healing you could keep up a HL spam just because the size of your mana pool, the 20% penalty isn't that much when you're pumping out 13K heals in under 2 seconds.Accipiter wrote:I just don't get Paladins who throw 16 Intellect sockets into all slots combined with 19 Spellpower ones. Grats, you get a 26k raidbuffed manapool but what good use is that when you have 10-15% less crit then I do?
Also there's no encounter whatsoever requiring HL spam as of yetLatest changes from old to new on PTR:
Most important changes for holy
sanc seals the 3% crit talent from ret gutted to a dmg increase for exorcism/cs so useless for holy
Sacred shield now 1 target max only
Glyph oh holy light uncrittable/range 8 yard
Can at least put 3 points in the divinity prot tier 1 talents though now instead of sanc seals at least. Talent calc is not fully updated/accurate atm and they prolly still not done with changing stuff around:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=&version=9658
Paladin
* Glyph of Holy Light: Can no longer crit and has had its range updated.
* Glyph of Salvation: When you cast Hand of Salvation on yourself, it also reduces damage taken by 20%.
Paladin (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
* Hand of Sacrifice: The damage transferred by this ability is now capped by the Paladin’s health.
* Forbearance reduced to 2 min duration.
* Sacred Shield: This effect cannot be cast on more than one friendly target at a time.
Paladin (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
* All paladins auras had their range extended from 30 yards to 40 yards.
Holy
* Sacred Shield now cannot be on more than one target at any one time.
* Infusion of Light no longer has a chance to reduce the casting time of Holy Light, but increases the the critical chance of your next Holy Light by 10/20% instead.
Protection
* Hand of Sacrifice now lasts 12 sec or until the caster has transfered 100% of their maximum health.
* Targets affected by Divine Shield, Hand of Protection or Divine Protection can no longer be affected by any of these spell for 2 minutes. (Down from 3 minutes)
* Divine Sacrifice *New Talent* (Tier 3) - 30% of all damage taken by party or raid members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin (up to a maximum of 150% of the Paladin's health). Instant, 2 min cooldown.
Paladin (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
* Hand of Sacrifice: The damage transferred by this ability is now capped by the Paladin’s health.
* Forbearance reduced to 2 min duration.
* Sacred Shield: This effect cannot be cast on more than one friendly target at a time.
Holy
* Aura Mastery: Now makes anyone affected by Concentration Aura to be immune to Interrupt and Silence mechanics and increases the effectiveness of all other auras by 100%. Lasts 10 sec. 2 min cooldown.
* Blessed Hands: No longer reduces cooldowns of Hand spells. Instead, it improves the effectiveness of Hand of Salvation by 50/100% and Hand of Sacrifice by an additional 5/10%.
* Enlightened Judgements: No longer increases the range of Judgement of Justice. Moved to Tier 10.
* Infusion of Light: Now increases the critical chance of your next Holy Light by 10/20% instead of reducing cast time. Moved to Tier 10.
* Judgements of the Pure moved to Tier 9.
* Sacred Cleansing moved to Tier 8.
Protection
* Divine Guardian re-designed: Now increases the effectiveness of Divine Sacrifice by an additional 5/10% and increases the duration of Sacred Shield by 50/100% and the amount absorbed by 10/20%.
* New Talent: Divine Sacrifice: Causes all party/raid members affected by one of the paladin’s auras to transfer 30% of all damage taken to the paladin (maximum of 150% of the paladin’s max health). Lasts 10 sec. 2 min cooldown.
* Guarded by the Light: Now makes Divine Plea 50/100% less likely to be dispelled.
Retribution
* Sanctified Seals: Renamed Sanctity of Battle. Now also increases damage done by Exorcism and Crusader Strike by 5/10/15%.
Most important changes for holy
sanc seals the 3% crit talent from ret gutted to a dmg increase for exorcism/cs so useless for holy
Sacred shield now 1 target max only
Glyph oh holy light uncrittable/range 8 yard
Can at least put 3 points in the divinity prot tier 1 talents though now instead of sanc seals at least. Talent calc is not fully updated/accurate atm and they prolly still not done with changing stuff around:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=&version=9658
Paladin
* Glyph of Holy Light: Can no longer crit and has had its range updated.
* Glyph of Salvation: When you cast Hand of Salvation on yourself, it also reduces damage taken by 20%.
Paladin (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
* Hand of Sacrifice: The damage transferred by this ability is now capped by the Paladin’s health.
* Forbearance reduced to 2 min duration.
* Sacred Shield: This effect cannot be cast on more than one friendly target at a time.
Paladin (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
* All paladins auras had their range extended from 30 yards to 40 yards.
Holy
* Sacred Shield now cannot be on more than one target at any one time.
* Infusion of Light no longer has a chance to reduce the casting time of Holy Light, but increases the the critical chance of your next Holy Light by 10/20% instead.
Protection
* Hand of Sacrifice now lasts 12 sec or until the caster has transfered 100% of their maximum health.
* Targets affected by Divine Shield, Hand of Protection or Divine Protection can no longer be affected by any of these spell for 2 minutes. (Down from 3 minutes)
* Divine Sacrifice *New Talent* (Tier 3) - 30% of all damage taken by party or raid members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin (up to a maximum of 150% of the Paladin's health). Instant, 2 min cooldown.
Paladin (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
* Hand of Sacrifice: The damage transferred by this ability is now capped by the Paladin’s health.
* Forbearance reduced to 2 min duration.
* Sacred Shield: This effect cannot be cast on more than one friendly target at a time.
Holy
* Aura Mastery: Now makes anyone affected by Concentration Aura to be immune to Interrupt and Silence mechanics and increases the effectiveness of all other auras by 100%. Lasts 10 sec. 2 min cooldown.
* Blessed Hands: No longer reduces cooldowns of Hand spells. Instead, it improves the effectiveness of Hand of Salvation by 50/100% and Hand of Sacrifice by an additional 5/10%.
* Enlightened Judgements: No longer increases the range of Judgement of Justice. Moved to Tier 10.
* Infusion of Light: Now increases the critical chance of your next Holy Light by 10/20% instead of reducing cast time. Moved to Tier 10.
* Judgements of the Pure moved to Tier 9.
* Sacred Cleansing moved to Tier 8.
Protection
* Divine Guardian re-designed: Now increases the effectiveness of Divine Sacrifice by an additional 5/10% and increases the duration of Sacred Shield by 50/100% and the amount absorbed by 10/20%.
* New Talent: Divine Sacrifice: Causes all party/raid members affected by one of the paladin’s auras to transfer 30% of all damage taken to the paladin (maximum of 150% of the paladin’s max health). Lasts 10 sec. 2 min cooldown.
* Guarded by the Light: Now makes Divine Plea 50/100% less likely to be dispelled.
Retribution
* Sanctified Seals: Renamed Sanctity of Battle. Now also increases damage done by Exorcism and Crusader Strike by 5/10/15%.
Prolly will go something like this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9658
Folspam/sp/mp5 set focused prolly cause you got near 100% critrate already with ss on target and although they still tinkering with it the new divine sacrafice is in basic form also nerfed(30% of raid dmg is now capped at 150% of max health of din)
But if you can activate divine shield+divine sacrafice+hand of sacrafice+aura mastery( Aura Mastery: Now makes anyone affected by Concentration Aura to be immune to Interrupt and Silence mechanics and increases the effectiveness of all other auras by 100%. Lasts 10 sec. 2 min cooldown. ) all at once for a 5/2min raidwide/or even more improved single target dmg reduction cooldown that might be still be pretty usefull with resistance auras for ulduar etc although blue is commenting they want that talent to be more useful for full protadins then holy too.
Now only have to rebuild my crit set
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... n=Beyonder
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9658
Folspam/sp/mp5 set focused prolly cause you got near 100% critrate already with ss on target and although they still tinkering with it the new divine sacrafice is in basic form also nerfed(30% of raid dmg is now capped at 150% of max health of din)
But if you can activate divine shield+divine sacrafice+hand of sacrafice+aura mastery( Aura Mastery: Now makes anyone affected by Concentration Aura to be immune to Interrupt and Silence mechanics and increases the effectiveness of all other auras by 100%. Lasts 10 sec. 2 min cooldown. ) all at once for a 5/2min raidwide/or even more improved single target dmg reduction cooldown that might be still be pretty usefull with resistance auras for ulduar etc although blue is commenting they want that talent to be more useful for full protadins then holy too.
Now only have to rebuild my crit set
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... n=Beyonder
Crappy stats/very minor upgrade for some but even crappier set bonuses at first glance.
Most dins willl stay in naxx gear for the holy 4set bonus combined with heroic badge cost reduce libram and sow heal cost reducing glyph i reckon.
Most likely t7 bonuses will be nerfed because of that though.
Blue commented already their main mana balancing change will be illumination now if needed
Most dins willl stay in naxx gear for the holy 4set bonus combined with heroic badge cost reduce libram and sow heal cost reducing glyph i reckon.
Most likely t7 bonuses will be nerfed because of that though.
Blue commented already their main mana balancing change will be illumination now if needed
Set bonuses on T8 holy set has changed to
The lack of crit on the T8 set pretty much rules out HL though.
Looking at the rest of the Ulduar gear doesn't make me any happier... A lot of it looks itemized for shamans and it seems we'll have to make a choice between set bonuses and crit. Furthermore there is only 1 yellow and 2 red sockets on the pieces but 4 blue, which just makes me think that blizzard wants us to choose between gems and socket bonuses.
Edit:
Looking at the shaman set makes me even sadder. The two sets are identical aside from that shamans get more crit than haste and have 2 yellow and 3 blue sockets.
WTF is up? Did they confuse paladins with shamans when they itemized the gear?
I think we'll be more varied in Ulduar, still with FoL spam as main healing but weaving in a holy shock whenever possible for the HoT.2 pieces: Your Holy Shock critical heals now also place a periodic healing effect on the target, healing for 15% of the Holy Shock's heal amount over 9 sec.
4 pieces: Your Sacred Shield can now trigger its effect every 4 sec instead of every 6.
The lack of crit on the T8 set pretty much rules out HL though.
Looking at the rest of the Ulduar gear doesn't make me any happier... A lot of it looks itemized for shamans and it seems we'll have to make a choice between set bonuses and crit. Furthermore there is only 1 yellow and 2 red sockets on the pieces but 4 blue, which just makes me think that blizzard wants us to choose between gems and socket bonuses.
Edit:
Looking at the shaman set makes me even sadder. The two sets are identical aside from that shamans get more crit than haste and have 2 yellow and 3 blue sockets.
WTF is up? Did they confuse paladins with shamans when they itemized the gear?
-
Toenibbler
- Warlord
- Posts: 872
- Joined: 06 Apr 2006, 18:58
- Location: Voorschoten, Holland
shaman set is sooooo bad, i even think im gonna use the 2 resto pieces without mp5 for elemental. its just rediculous. and some of the items are not even an upgrade. so yes. i think they fucked up both paladin and shaman setRaniz wrote:Set bonuses on T8 holy set has changed toI think we'll be more varied in Ulduar, still with FoL spam as main healing but weaving in a holy shock whenever possible for the HoT.2 pieces: Your Holy Shock critical heals now also place a periodic healing effect on the target, healing for 15% of the Holy Shock's heal amount over 9 sec.
4 pieces: Your Sacred Shield can now trigger its effect every 4 sec instead of every 6.
The lack of crit on the T8 set pretty much rules out HL though.
Looking at the rest of the Ulduar gear doesn't make me any happier... A lot of it looks itemized for shamans and it seems we'll have to make a choice between set bonuses and crit. Furthermore there is only 1 yellow and 2 red sockets on the pieces but 4 blue, which just makes me think that blizzard wants us to choose between gems and socket bonuses.
Edit:
Looking at the shaman set makes me even sadder. The two sets are identical aside from that shamans get more crit than haste and have 2 yellow and 3 blue sockets.
WTF is up? Did they confuse paladins with shamans when they itemized the gear?
Spec for 3.1
This is for FoL spamming, I've valued 3% increase in healing from Divinity over 3% crit from Sanctity of Battle, depending on how much I'lll be using HL in ulduar I might change it into this which will be better for HL spamming.
I've also chosen not to grab Aura Mastery, one idea would be to grab this and use it during BL to maximize the effect for 10s (ideally we would be 3 paladins who will pop Aura Mastery one after the other to remove interruptions/silence completely during BL)
This is for FoL spamming, I've valued 3% increase in healing from Divinity over 3% crit from Sanctity of Battle, depending on how much I'lll be using HL in ulduar I might change it into this which will be better for HL spamming.
I've also chosen not to grab Aura Mastery, one idea would be to grab this and use it during BL to maximize the effect for 10s (ideally we would be 3 paladins who will pop Aura Mastery one after the other to remove interruptions/silence completely during BL)